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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 14, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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truth is thinking you'll find a hope filed in your next weetties box. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hays starts right now. >> tonight on all in, if your health is as strong as it seems, why not show your medical records. >> we now know donald trump weight loss plan. what do we really now about his personal business interest. a bombshell report from news week of the trump organization foreign entaknglements and the threat they could pose. plus, traced her on the false equivalence of clinton versus trump. what we know about the dnc hack, colin powell hack, and possible russian meddling in our election. and in clint michigan.
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>> hillary failed the economy. >> hillary clinton. >> i invited you here to thank us, not give a political speech. >> all in starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hays. from the day he clenched the republican notimination. he has a chance of becoming president of the united states. 55 days away, polls show his chances are improving. the race is tight, it's real, and it really could happen. while we in the media have paid more attention to donald trump than any candidate in recent history, following and parsing his often absurd or untroous it refinance, we know little about what sort of president he would be. in a crucial respect, he is the
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most covered and least known candidate in decades. that's because no major party presidential nominee more than 75 years ago has had less of a public record than donald trump. never served a day in public office. never cast a vote. never issued a veto. the only record he has in his business dealings, fall under the umbrella of the trump organization. not a public company. it's a private conglomerate. does not file forms. we cannot look into earning statements. everything about it is seal instead a vault that donald trump will not show us. we have gotten glimpses into that vault occasionally thanks to lawsuits and leaks and hard work of reporters and whistle blowers. we know ha 1973 suit claimed that super intents of trump property would mark african-american applications with c for colored. we know he bankrupted his casinos, but walked away with
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millions. his own lawyers say he did not pay them for his work. we know about the failed businesses, trump airlines, trump magazine, trump vodka. we know the fraud suits of trump university. the mileaplagiarized lessons. here's what we do not know. to whom does he owe money, to whom does he owe favors. with whom is he secretly partnered. who is holding a economic gun to his head as he is poised to become the mt single powerful person in the world. that information can only be shown in the tax returns he refuses to show. hillary clinton gets criticized for being secretive. think about that charge for a second and think about the reality. her tax returns are public, the donors of the clinton foundation are public. her record of secretary of st e state, most of it, almost all of it, public. hillary clinton is more than anyone in american life a truly
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public figure. donald trump is truly a private one. don't know his creditors. source of income. potential con flingts of interest. we don't know the things that matter and we aren't going to know. he illustrated today with his stunt with his health record. doles of information selectively. original offers up the stuff he can spin. everything else no matter how important is off limits. won't even turn over a record of the charities he's written checks to. because it would make it look terrible. that is one tiny corner of his entire fallen dealings. the question becomes what should we assume about what trump won't tell us. now, we know how the press generally treats hillary clinton in this regard. anything that is private is assumed to be me that arehouse or embarrassing. if it's not disclosed, it must be corrupt or criminal. this is true even when she just got sick and tried to power through. no matter how much she revealed,
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she rarely gets the benefit of the doubt. when it comes to trump's tax returns which are the single set of documents that could reveal the actual business record of a man who is only career has been business, a document that would show performance and potential conflicts he would face as president of the united states, conflicts that could quite clearly pose a fundamental threat to the interest of the nation, donald trump wants the benefit of the doubt. he expects it and for the most part, somehow, he's gotten it. today we had a window into how much is at stake if donald trump becomes president. journalist court icahn explores how the business ties to criminals could up end u.s. security. writing if trump moves into the white house and family continues to receive any benefit from the company during and after presidency, almost every foreign policy decision he makes will raise serious conflicts of interest and ethical kwag mires.
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>> curt, the piece goes through, i want to first sort of sketch out the highest level. the basic thrust of the piece which are about donald trump's business dealings overseas and what kind of potential conflicts they would raise for a donald trump presidency. >> okay. well, the primary thing here is you've got trump has about 500 different partnerships, entities that are subsidiaries of the trump organization. many of those have partners that are overseas or domestic. i focused on the overseas ones. every time i was able to track one down, every time i was able to look at them, these were people who were tied to governments, very closely, much more so than you would find in the united states. they were involved in illegal activities, their interests were not aligned with the interest of the united states of america.
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so you have a situation where donald trump is going to have to choose. he's going to have to choose a partner who was giving him money, who was giving his kids money, or the interest of the united states. and there has never, ever in the history of america been a scenario like that. >> i want to focus on that. just how unprecedented this is. i think one of the things that happened with donald trump we became so used to his presence at a political figure. he won the primary. when we think about well, he won't release his tax returns. if he is elected he will take the oath of office january 20 and there is no precedent or ground rules for how someone with extensive and private business dealings would conduct those business dealings while being the president of the united states when those business dealings may at every turn, whether it's a russian development deal or something in dubai present some conflict to
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the the interest of the united states. >> yes, it's never happened. one of the dealings i talk about is one that they struck and it's a deal with their partner there is the son of a major government figure, a minister in the government who american intelligence has identified as a man who is laundering money for the iranian military. that is the father of donald trump's business partner. so is donald trump going to lean on his partner? is he going to lean on intelligence? is he going to lean on it will government? what kmochoice is he going to m or is he simply going to say, i'm not going to worry about this. let the money flow in. again, the story i go through in detail, a number of them, but all told i look at 15 different countries and all of them are 15
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different partnerships and all of them have these kind of conflicts. >> there is also the fact that as you talk, there's all these subsidiaries. a lot of this is you're working off the fairly sparse filings that we have from him that are the fec filings. am i correct about that? >> that's one element. the major thing i had to do was track down people overseas who knew things about donald trump. who had worked with donald trump. who had worked with his organization. >> so you don't have a blueprint for all this stuff. you have to go and start calling around turkey to find out who the major people are involved with the deal in this regard. >> yes and actually the story says which i find sort of bizarre, but i did say it that one of the main sources who hooked me up with people in turkey was an arab financer. you know, you're crossing over different areas in order to get
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the information, but, you know, people in different parts of the world are terrified. and, you know, one of the elements here that i find the most outrageous and i think you really touched on in the opening here, you know, i was alone. this is the low hanging fruit. what is donald trump's business? what is this private corporation? you know, the press is waiting for donald trump to reveal information to them and he'll say, i'm going have records this week. oh, no i'm not. i'll release it here. no i'm not. people are going to learn, he's not going to release anything. until we start digging in, like i had to with this story on this company, we're not going to know who this man is, even when he walks into the oval office, if it gets there. >> it's unprecedented at the presidential level, but not unprecedented at other levels. dick chany, ceo of haliburton,
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michael bloomberg in new york city. in those cases you have selling stakes, blind trust, some sort of arm's length arrangement so much the enterprise in question could be fired off. trump says he'll give it to his kids. what do you think of that as a possible ethical solution to this incredible list of possible conflicts? >> it's absurd. donald trump is a smart guy in business. he knows what a blind trust is. he is saying i'll put the company in a blind trust. a blind trust is when you take a series of investments, a portfolio of investments, turn them over to an independent person who then does the trade fg r you. you don't know what's in them. if i said i am sticking to trump organization into a blind trust, well, that would be the most transparent thing in donald
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trump's life is that blind trust. we know what's in it, it's the trump organization. plus it's supposed to be somebody independent. he's saying i'll let my kids manager it. >> it will be the family business. >> exactly. and ivanka trump went on another network and said we'll take care of the problem. we're a private company. we'll choose the deals to avoid these kinds of issues. which is ridiculous. now saying donald trump's family is going to decide which issues can raise national security question. >> with no transparency into them. >> as far as we know, no disclosure. >> unless donald trump starts calling her up and sharing, you know, classifying intelligence to let her know which ones not to do business with, it's absurd and we won't even know what's going on. >> curt, really amazing pete of rurting in the news just sort of the tip of the ice burg when you think about the unprecedented universe that
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we're entering into. i really appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks for having me. still to come, latest polling shows a tightening race. democrats are freaking out a little. i have text messages to previov it. standards for the two candidates, how they've been applied so far. talk about that right after this break. hey america, still not sure whether to stay or go on that business trip? ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ this fall at choice hotels, the more you go the better! now earn a free night
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when you stay with us just two times. book direct at let's just get a sandwich or something. "or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it. pg&i help customerss, how with their there's different rates to fit different needs, so listening is a huge part of my job. because customers want to know that you hear them.
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they have kids, they have families, they have priorities. i definitely understand that. i have three children, i was a stay at home mom, i didn't have money to pay the bills, and so i put myself in their shoes. and i'm going to do all that i can to lower their bills and to help their situation. to choose the rate plan that works best for your family, visit together, we're building a better california. hillary clinton is not a perfect politician. no understatement to say the gulf between clinton and trump the qualifications on paper and temperament and about every other factor you can imagine. the gulf is seriously wide. new york magazine recently exported the dynamics of the political system. he writes, clinton is viewed as the near equivalent of trump who has commit what had would normally be considered a campaign defining gap at a raid of once a day for 15 months. require conversions of several
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factors. here to break down the factors, jonathan. defied critics and transformed america. what are those factors, john than. >> i wrote that a few days ago, but look, the main factor i would say is the news media is just not equip to handle a candidate like trump. you can't blame them. they never had a candidate like trump. you can't expect them to get it right the first time. trump breaks all the rules and all the conventions of american journalism which are mostly around the assumption both of your candidates will be relatively similar. you can allot equivalent amounts of space and coverage to both candidates. get same amounts of news instead of having one candidate who on any given day will give you seven reasons why he should be president no matter which don't happen in normal candidacy. >> we have examples in the past week.
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going back over mitt romney coverage and sort of comparing it. there were these romney gaps like he would say things that were awkward like the trees are the right size. said that in a speech in michigan. donald trump said we should shoot an iranian troop that made a rude gesture, which as far as i could tell, doing a little analysis, got less coverage than trues of the right size. >> to be honest, i didn't even hear that one and i spend ten hours a day reading news. i didn't even hear that one. i can give you another example. rudy giuliani, close adviser, he was asked about trump's plan to steal iraqs oil. said isn't that a war crime and said basically anything is legal within war. if putin came out and said there's no such thing as war crimes, it would be a huge scandal. even putin. rudy giuliani, it's just another day in the trump campaign. >> part of this is the -- here's the response i'm seeing from
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folks. all you liberals are freaking out. you're being nervous nellies and you're just trying to work the rest because you're candidate is in a tight race. your beef should be with the american people because he's got support between 40 and 46% of the american people. depending on the polling of the particular day. this is just standard wining. happens every four years. nothing new here. >> that's not all wrong, but wining does happen every four years. american people do have some blame and the media isn't doing a terrible job. i don't think the average person who is following the campaign in a nonprofessional way is really getting the sense that trump sl just a completely different kind of candidate and that this is recognized not just bipartisans of hillary clinton. there are a lot of republicans who cannot believe that he is even a plausible president and really terrified he'll be elected. >> the colin powell e-mails we're going to cover later in
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the show are perfect because he's got sort of nasty things to say about hillary clinton, but also says he respects her. she's worked here the whole time. and calls donald trump a disgrace and racist. you got this sort of asymmetry that sort of diffuses everything in the resumes of the historical having no public service record, but you can't how do you deal with that night in and night out. >> well, that's more your job. >> yes, we try. >> you're -- i think you're doing a great job, but the fact is most people don't want news like this and this detailed and it's very smart, but most people aren't watching this kind of intelligent coverage on a nightly basis. what you need are signals for the majority of the voters who really only will catch a little bit on the cable tv out of the corner of the eye and facebook feed and that's it. >> jonathan, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> joining me now, so
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someone had this today. i want the give them credit. dan diamond on twitter said the health disclosure situation is the perfect micro cause of the election. hillary clinton has disclosed more objectively. so she had first her letter, not this dashed off thing. now she disclosed more medical records today. she's disclosed more and she's under a greater cloud of suspicion. >> always. this is in part the story of hillary clinton. in part it's because she's been in public life for so long. all kind of reasons. infrastructures, generations of journalists at this point have been tasked with investigating her. she's been under all kinds of fbi investigation. it's how we know so much about her. the medical records are an example of this. to some degree she's been asked to put more out front. this creates complications.
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she's defensive about it. this is where we get into situations where she tries to have a private e-mail server or doesn't acknowledge she is suffering from pneumonia and stumbles into a car. not all blame goes in one direction, but it certainly fits a pattern across the board are hillary. infrastructures in place to be demanding of heifer disclosures and any remaining mystery becomes suspicious. >> to get back to what we were talking about. trump i always thought about a key moment in life when rums field and every said he's done. he has to resign. he just didn't resign. at a certain point, everyone tires themselves out and he's still there. you've seen the same thing with garland. nominate and say we're not going to do it. trump, he doesn't ever give the first piece in the bred crumb trail. right? whereas hillary clinton,
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exactly. >> she eagerly gives something. >> we have state department e-mails. we have medical records. we start to get bread crumb trail pieces. >> gives more material and inevitably any material you're going to find something that is interesting and portable. then it's like we found this interesting thing. >> so in trump's case he could produce a letter from the irs saying he's under audit. >> but he's not going to do that because what would happen if he did that, other things would follow. >> yes. >> it seems to many hillary clinton gets -- i mean, that's the paradox of her is -- [ inaudible ] >> clinton is where you can felt. there's almost nothing she can do. she can't not give it either. if she doesn't give anything over, it would enhance, you know, that she's got something to hide so everyone. >> everyone is like i got to see
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your blood pressure. i have to see -- america demanded. >> i'm sure it's far better than mine. 100%. so jealous. >> this would be the stat in the election. it's all going to come down. that's exactly right. this week was a micro cokoz m t me. she has to give. she also doesn't want to and the resistance is palpable and makes people think she's being secretive. >> then she's secretive about something and everyone is like, a ha, i knew she had secret sgls how do you feel about this election right now, someone who covered her as long as you have. you wrote a book in 2008. you were a big profile of her. >> it is in line with some of my more anxious expectations. i never thought that post convention bump was going to hold. i never for one second of this election and, certainly, in 2008
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thought she was inevitable. we have never elect add woman president. never before in a momenominated left leaning democratic, i'm terrified, but i've been terrified for over a year at this point. and i also would say that hillary clinton is traditionally at her best when she's in an underdog position. there's a small degree to which the fact that polls are tightening right now probably pretty good for her going into the first debate. >> it was true in benghazi. it was true in the latter part of the campaign when she did her best and almost anymore rowed the gap. >> thank you for big brandon guyer being here. private citizens and organizations i'll talk with malcolm about what we know and who might be behind it. ahead.
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as she prepares to return to the campaign trail tomorrow, a new letter from her doctor a chest scan picked up a mild, noncontagious pneumonia in her right lung. recovering well. also reporting the candidate is in excellent mental condition. continues healthy and fit to serve as president of the united states. clinton's running mate releasing a letter from his physician as well. both letters online for the public to read. donald trump also has a doctor's note following a recent physical, but no one has seen it
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except doctor oz. not clear if the candidate would be sharing the results with anyone at all. >> he's going to go on dr. ooz and he's not going to release the results of his physical. why is that? >> i don't think he should on a tv show. >> that was the original plan. >> no, he was going to talk about the fact he had a physical and what the results are or what the doctor may have told him to date. >> okay. once the candidate sat down to tape the interview with doctor oz. asking the studio audience whether he should release his medical records. >> if your health is as strong as it seems from your review of symptoms, why not share your medical records. >> i have no problem in doing it. i have it right here. should i do it? >>. >> it's two letters. one is the report and the other is from lennox hill hospital. >> may i see them?
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>> sure. those are all the tests done last week. >> that was dr. oz's audiences voting whether he should give the letters to doctor oz. it was reported by this man. doctor harold born stein. the author of the letters saying if trump were to win he would be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency i. as for what else was revealed. doctor oz taping, shared details. >> his blood work, normal. trump says. cancer screenings, yearlily. his diet, trump likes fast food. what audience member tells nbc news at least he knows what's in it. as for exercise, that comes on the campaign trail when trump moves his arms during speeches. >> doctor oz sat down with nbc kate snow after the show taping. >> he weighs 230 pounds.
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he told you he eats fast food all the time. doesn't really exercise. how can you pronounce somebody like that fit to be president. >> he gets a lot of physical activity. he argues and he can't argue with the test results, but, again, as a doctor, allky do is assess what i'm given. >> i don't even know what's going on here. at this point in time, the only person we know for certain has seen the republican presidential nominee's million information is doctor oz. the rest of us just have to take donald trump's word for its. the candidate alluded to earlier this week, perhaps he would only be sharing the good stuff. >> so i'll be announcing -- i'll be sometime during the week i'll be handing out a paper with very large numbers, very detailed -- hopefully good statistics. i feel very confident otherwise i probably wouldn't be telling you i did this; right? >> healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose.
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former secretary of state colin powell is in the news. personal e-mails leaked online by hackers. 2014 e-mail exchange said about hillary clinton i would rather not vote for her. oom she's a friend i represent. 70-year-old friend with a track record. he goes on to cite a tabloid report of bill clinton sex life. powell is far more withering
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about trump. called a national disgrace. the birther movement calling him racist. quote, there's nothing he can say to sway black voters. he takes us for idiots. never overcome what he tried to do with obama with the search for birth certificate. senior u.s. intelligence official tells nbc news where the e-mails were posted is believed to be a conduit of russian intelligence. this is just the latest trove o. hacked e-mails. internal dnc released just before the democratic convention which proved bias against bernie sanders. that leak was claimed by a hacker who goes by the monoker goose for 2.0. wildly believed to have been made up by the russian government in an attempt to coverup own hack. just yesterday that same hacker released more documents. one containing what appears to be the personal cell phone number for vice presidential
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candidate tim kaine. also targeting state democratic frishls and breached and impersonated some of them. did not mince words when she who she holds responsible. dnc is the victim of a crime and cyber attack by russian agents who seek to harm the party in an effort to influence the presidential election. there's one person who stands to benefit from the criminal acts and that sl donald trump. not just a democratic party and other officials being targeted. not long after russian athletes were banned for doping, posted what they say are the drug testing records of gymnast simone biles and williams. now an n mississip. >> i find it as a nonexpert citizen making sense of the news. people saying this was the
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russians. this was the russianins. why is that not jumping to conclusions that are not supported by the evidence. convince me that there's a reason to think this is concentrated effort by the russians to essentially impact the u.s. election. >> well, there's a lot of evidence and as a matter of fact, you know, you don't have to believe just what one or two people say. virtually all of the top cyber security companies in the united states, crowd strike, and others have been studying the groups and watching the fingerprints of two very large groups. richard angle spoke about them earlier. there's three wings from this hacking world from the russians. russian intelligence which operate twos different hacking groups. use the simplified names. cozy beer and fancy beer. bear. then you have cyber criminals also involved in the hackings. criminal bears and then there's these militia.
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free wielding russian peeld who do hackings. militia bears. all had fingerprints at one point or another. atp 28 and atp 29 which is advanced persistent threat. packages of data left behind by the two soviet agencies, the fsb. formally known as the kgb, their fingerprints have been overhacked all throughout the world. we've identified them in is tonia when they took down the internet system. georgia, the ukraine german intelligence have identified them. we've even seen them do false flag attacks. atp 28 and 29. two russian intelligence hacking packages are very well known and fingerprints were all over every
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aspect of the dnc, d triple c. hillary clinton campaign, colin powells wikileaks appears to be their conduit for getting information out and gucifer is just fronts for the intelligence operation. >> what does this mean? i find it like -- i don't even know who is doing it. what i think of colin powell who is a public figure and also private citizen. when i think about simone biles medical records being hacked, profoundly unsettling to me. the idea of this sort of dystopian future we're entering into of all this information being essentially in the hands of lord know who for whatever purposes. >> what's actually happening here is a very large scale strategic political warfare against the united states that's being carried out by russia. after the fall of the soviet
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union, the owuone agency that nr changed was the kgb. they just changed initials. then they were led by the spy master in chief who is running russia right now, vladimir putin. former director of the kgb. these operations are all political part in their political process and carried out operations through, you know, throughout eastern europe called come pro matt. try to compromise political groups and individuals through blackmail or through operations, and in this term of an operation, they are trying to put their scale on the thumb. not really. they're actually putting their hand on the thumb and they want an outcome for one person in this election. and that's donald trump. >> thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> still to come, the democratic panic. is donald trump pulling too close for comfort and how the debates could change the race ahead. first thing one, thing two, right after this break.
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thing one tonight, donald trump made a stop in flint, michigan tonight. the now dormant water treatment there before delivering brief remarks the let's say things could have gone better. >> for the economy. just like she has failed on foreign policy. every thing she touched didn't work out. >> we i believe invited you here to not to give a political speech. okay. that's good. i'm going to get back to it. >> okay. flint's pain is a result of so many different failures. >> that was pasture of the church cutting off the nominee for attacking hillary clinton instead of talking about flint. which is still in the midst of a water crisis. trump then proceeded to talk about the water crisis although
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he didn't detail any specific policies or initiatives he would make to make the water safe. one thing he has been clear on, this is a situation that would never happen in i were president. same answer he gave to nbc affiliate in flint. >> reporter: what would your administration do with the water crisis. it's still on going. they still cannot drink the water. >> it would not have happen. it's so ridiculous. in order to save a small amount of money and now it's a disas r disaster. >> not the only thing he said would not have happened if he were president. in fact far from it. and that is thing two in 60 seconds. take on any road with intuitive all-wheel drive. the nissan rogue, murano and pathfinder.
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down the world stayed center. >> i think the world trade center would be standing because if you read by book, america would deserve, i have a whole paragraph or two about osama bin laden and i said he's big trouble. believe me, i would have done something. >> i would have been tougher on terrorism. bin laden would have been caught a long time ago before he was ultimately caught. i gave a good answer to one of the shows on russia going into the ukraine. i said simply, they're not going to do it on my watch. if i would have landed in cuba, i would have made a much better deal. >> why do you think he's going after you. >> i can say this. if i was president because his son died 12 years ago ago, if i were president his son wouldn't have died because i wouldn't have been in the war. if i was president back there there would have been no war for iraq. can i tell you that.
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democrats nervous trump is
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getting too close for comfort has been years to focus on certain polls and get worried. for instance latest trend has trump ahead by five points. bloomberg point in ohio has trump up. nationally the polling continues to tighten. shows trump now rising to better than 1-3 chance of winning the election. brand new national poll shows clinton holding on to five point lead. many tracking polls show clinton suffering days of bad polling right after the weekend. nothing in the realm of falling off a cliff. having said all that, we might all agree what we've seen so far anything can happen. which is what makes the debates more important. we'll discuss the epic face off next.
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. the first presidential debate is now 12 days away, the much anticipated night that could have an affect on the race. hillary clinton is a fairly seasoned debater. but she has over the course of her debate career often struggled when attacked. >> the fact is most people watching tonight want to know what we have done and what we will do. that is why i'm laying out a specific agenda, make progress and get more jobs. i think donald trump's bigotry, his bullying, his bluster, are
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not going to wear well on the american people. i have said -- >> senator, please. >> if we can raise it to 15 in new york city or los angeles or seattle, let's do it. >> donald trump of course got a crash course in debates during the republican primary. he is unpredictable and prone to bluster did prove effective in that primary field. >> honestly, megin, if you don't like it, i'm sorry. everybody said it was going to be three hours, 3 1/2, including them and in about two minutes, i renegotiated it down to two hours so we can get the hell out of here. obviously the war in iraq is was a big fat mistake, they lied, they said there were weapons of mass destruction and they knew
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there were none. >> the man who has written an epic piece, and james, let me start with you, this has now become a quad dren yal -- preps up, bones up on all the debate performances of the two people and writes his big scouting report, what did you find? >> i found the main thing, your clips of trump in the primaries remind us of how important his debate performances were in his success in the primary field. how different the debates coming up, if it's a ten-person debate field, each one of these people is skrcrambling for precious ai time. that's what people remember. it's really different with two people head to head, which trump has never in his life done.
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>> what we have seen happen in the trump campaign in the last several weeks is to contain him enough, not to pursue vendettas against a family of a fall on u.s. soldier or a sustained attack on a u.s. federal judge, and because everything he's done is within the bounds of extreme versions of offensive behavior, they have kept him on a leash essentially. but he's not going to be on a leash in the debate. this is him taking a shot at hillary clinton's health in a way that i think he had successfully avoided all week. take a look. >> you think this is so easy, in this beautiful room that's 122 degrees. i don't know, folks, you think hillary would be able to stand up here for an hour and do this? i don't know. i don't think so. i don't think so. >> and i guess, sabrina, by the way the reporters said it was
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very chilly in the room. he's not going to have any prompter and we're going to get back to sort of 200 proof trump here. >> there are so many unknowns that are associated with trump and i think the biggest risk is always that he's just going to say something offensive to hillary clinton, a personal insult or really just reveal of course that he really doesn't have nearly the same depth in terms of policy knowledge and there's no comparison between the two nominees. at the same time i think there's something concerning about the standards you have been talking about in your show about how these two candidates are covered. any time donald trump is mildly coherent, it's regarded as this big victory for him and i think it will be concerning if he's able to show that version of himself in the debates and hillary clinton, who is a very seasoned debater and does have a grasp on the issue, if that gets overcast in the opinions of who
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won and who didn't. >> i think it interests the campaigns, i'm not sure how much it matters to much of the electorate, because they're going to see for the first time ever, these two people, these two very, very different people head to head, it probably will be the most watched event in tv history, exceeding oj and all the rest. but while there is the game factor, and hillary clinton should do better in this circumstance, because it plays to her strength, i think it will be judged also on just raw performance and if he can make her look bad. >> it will be really interested if you had a debate and said, look, we have litigated a lot about you two as individuals, whether that's the e-mails or the trump university, we're just doing policy tonight. and because i think that would be fascinating. in some ways, i think you could
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say that benefits hillary clinton, but in other ways, donald trump's laundry list of all this stuff, you put those things aside, that's the thing i'm most interested in watching. >> and that will play to hillary clinton's strengths, the democratic debates were very much substantive on policy, and that's where she was able to excel, even coming in with some degree of pressure, bernie sanders being a bigger threat than she anticipated and you saw that calm, collected demeanor in that benghazi hear, where she was able to walk through very pressing national security concerns and do it with flashes of empathy and humor. so if that's the hillary clinton that we see, i think that will play really well in the eyes of the public. >> do you think trump can pull off policy debates? >> he's the 70 years old, he doesn't seem to be a student of the debriefing books, i'm thinking of some field i know
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something about, policy in central africa or opera, if i knew in 12 days i would i was going to be in front of does sev hundreds of people, i don't think i would even try. rachel maddow show starts now. today was a weird day in the news. it was -- today was a weird one. i searched out weird, i like weirdness in the news, a lot of days seem weird to me, today was really weird. the article did come out in "newsweek," of donald trump's business interests abroad, business interest and financial linkages that could be a real mess in terms of conflicts of interests. whether or not he suffers foly


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